User talk:Nil Einne

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Archives: User talk:Nil Einne/Archive 1

[edit] GFDL

That's a fascinating catch you've made there, with that Wiki-plagiarism in Living with Terror. This reminds me of an experience I had about a year ago, when I began to see much of my own Wiki-writing appear in countless news articles and websites, lifted from my edits at Chinua Achebe. It was perhaps a bit vain of me to notice, but lord I do have my weaknesses: compare [1] and this much older version of his Wiki page.

Many other sentences and phrases were lifted as well. Every news piece I looked at, I found stuff that I had written in the Wiki article. Even the Hindustan Times noted the "ill-fated" Biafran's view of "the intricacies of pre-colonial African culture and civilization".[2] This all occurred in the context of the awarding of Chinua Achebe with the Man Booker International Prize for 2007; Man Booker also reproduced some of my Wiki-work, in explaining their choice. I guess that's probably not all that uncommon, but I consider it a career highlight. :o) DBaba (talk) 22:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Persian Mesopotamia

Hello there. You and I don't know each other very well; you might remember me as a hot-headed wikipedian who infrequently discusses on the Main Page discussion page. I know that you and I have not seen eye to eye before, but I need your help in resolving a small dispute. The article Persian Mesopotamia has, after much debating, overwhelming amount of references presented by User:Chaldean and the introduction of a Third Opinion been decided to be re-named to Achaemenid Assyria. However, such a move needs an admin or a mod, and thats where my request for your aid comes.

Respectfully,

Tourskin (talk) 04:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Rollback

You are right, I was totally unaware that rollback rights could be granted upon request. I am so busy creating articles and writing for other publications. After I became aware of the Rollback situation I went and granted the rollback option to the user who requested it. Take care. Tony the Marine (talk) 22:46, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable sources comment

Thank you for this useful comment [3] on the Reliable sources noticeboard. I wonder if you would be willing to comment further on talkpage of the article concerned Robert Latimer where editors are still struggling with idea that secondary sources are to be preferred. --Slp1 (talk) 17:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, though unfortunately as usual there is no useful response or interaction about what has been said. If you felt like keeping an eye, I would be very grateful, but totally understand if you don't!!! --Slp1 (talk) 22:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] My bad

Okay, that one I was confused: I thought that your "at least two years" was some kind of allusion to my "forever" comment. That's what it seemed like to me, sense it didn't make sense to me in any other way. If that's not how you intended it, then I guess I don't get your comment, and I apologize. Benjamin ^{Scrīptum est - Fecī} 21:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Cyclone

Thanks for moving my error report, at least I now know for the future! Regards, CycloneNimrod^Talk? 11:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Mediation: John Howard

Hello. A request for mediation has been lodged for the John Howard article, concerning whether information about an incident between John Howard and Barack Obama should be included or deleted from the article. The link for the RfM is Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/John_Howard. The issue is still being discussed on the article talk page. Please go to the RfM page and list whether you agree or disagree to be involved in mediation of this issue. Thank you, Lester 01:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Main Page

I was pointing it out again because of that fact that the conversation was continuing irrelevant of ffm's notice. ☯Ferdia O'Brien ^(T)/_(C) 19:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] last warning?

Your accusations are unfounded! I have caused no vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Duben17 (talk • contribs) 14:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Avril Lavigne has the entertainment value of a brick. Why would I care about her? I think it's about time you issued me an apology, assuming you can muster it. Next time you deserve a trout in the face for questioning someone's intentions, I'll expect you'll take it with dignity instead of making personal attacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Duben17 (talk • contribs) 14:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Duben17 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/John Howard. For the Mediation Committee, WjBscribe 16:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:Durian-pronounciation.ogg

Thanks for uploading Image:Durian-pronounciation.ogg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information; to add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia.

For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 10:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You're welcome

Thank you for thanking me. It just looked like another instance of the refdesk trolling we've seen a lot of lately, as I said. What was inappropriate about it? I thought usernames using non-Latin characters were permitted. Daniel Case (talk) 15:05, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I figured ... not the Korean but the words. I think we've blocked people for too-cute self-conscious self-referential usernames here in any event. Daniel Case (talk) 16:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trolls

Hi there Nil Einne. I noticed you removed a question from Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous. Just curious as I replied to it, is that the standard procedure when dealing with trolls? D0762 (talk) 10:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I knew there was a problem but I had no idea it had been going on for so long. D0762 (talk) 11:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Biblbroks

Thanks for the possible explanations . Hégésippe | ±Θ± 13:37, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:RD/Misc

i think it looks cool. can you tell someone who works it out to test it then to discuss with others and put it on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.220.127 (talk) 21:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your note on BLPN

I write because of your prior response to the BLPN post I submitted regarding Dicklyon's violations of BLP and 3RR at Archives of Sexual Behavior. He is now accusing me of violating COI in part because of that, so it seemed appropriate to notify you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#MarionTheLibrarian.
—MarionTheLibrarian (talk) 01:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Villiany

That is to YOUR preceived, asked and anwsered. "Our"? Yes, just a few editors that have accounts. This is so biased, so totally biased to favor your own intrests, and your other editor villains.68.148.164.166 (talk) 12:06, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] On Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni

Dear Nil Einne, thank you for your message. Firstly, until five minutes ago I was unaware that the above-mentioned two individuals had a Wikipedia entry (otherwise I would have referred to the entry, rather than to a video on YouTube). As for reliable source or sources for what I had indicted earlier (here [4]), my knowledge on the case at hand comes directly and entirely from an article published in der Spiegel, as I mentioned previously. I have not been able to trace this article back. Someone interested in the issue should consider to contact der Spiegel and ask them about what they have published on this and/or similar cases over the course of years.

Now something important. On briefly looking through the present Wikipedia entry on Mr Asgari and Mr Marhoni, I feel that I am somewhat confused. This entry states that these two men were executed on 19 July 2005, yet the article that I have read in der Spiegel was certainly published before this date; my memory is that I must have read this particular article sometimes around 2002. I have checked all the links in the External Links section of the above-mentioned Wikipedia entry, and these links seem to be invariably originating from the same source, namely MEK. I am inclined to think that MEK may be acting disingenuously here (MEK is not known for acting honourably); unless there have been two similar cases (of two young men being hanged in Iran on account of identical charges), there is something wrong with 19 July 2005. In around 2002 I was living in one country, and in 2005 in another country, so that the chance of my memory failing (or mixing up events) is extremely small: I cannot recall to have read about the execution of two young men in Iran on charges of rape of a minor (or of homosexuality for that matter) in a der Spiegel of July 2005; in fact, I have a very clear memory of the place and even of the time of the day when I read that specific der Spiegel article.

You suggest that I help out with the LGBT rights in Iran. Well, I have not been to Iran for three decades, so that I have absolutely no first-hand experience of the more recent events taking place in Iran; what I know is through the public media here in the West.

The equivalent of lawāt is sodomy; lawāt appears to refer to Lot who was an inhabitant of Sodom and Gomorra (note that, depending on the religious school of thought, a particular sexual activity between a married heterosexual couple can constitute lawāt — to my best knowledge, this is not a peculiarity of Islamic Law, as for instance according to English Law, sodomy is illegal between married heterosexual couples; the law on this issue may have changed since I last checked it; in earlier times, in America oral sex constituted one of the acts of sodomy; this very fact is interestingly preserved in the definition of sodomy in the old American-English dictionaries - the contemporary English-English dictionaries do not include oral sex as an act of sodomy). I do not know the specific details of the Iranian law on sodomy and how acts of sodomy can be proved in courts of law, should someone be charge with this act, if it has involved two legally consenting adults. I suppose therefore that the majority, if not all, sodomy charges arise when someone has been raped, or at least one of the individuals concerned has been an adult and the other a child or a teenager (in which case the intercourse falls under rape, since legally the latter person could not have consented to the sexual act). In particular in the latter case, it is most likely that the parents of the minor lodge a complaint against the adult person. In such case, you have at least one person who can in principle accuse the other person and testify against in the court. In the case of two consenting adults, I do not know how the case can be brought to the court in the first place, and how a conviction can be secured in the second. I am not familiar with the details, but I believe that in Islam charges pertaining to sexual intercourse between two (or more) individuals can be considered as viable if the act(s) has (have) been witnessed by four reliable witnesses (the technical term for a reliable witness is Just Witness — thus, someone with an earlier criminal conviction does not qualify for appearing in court as a Just Witness). In fact, just seeing two people in each other's arms is not sufficient for deducing that these two had been involved in a sexual activity; there are some very complicated conditions that have to be met, before the two individuals can be considered as having been engaged in a sexual activity. All these make me believe that unless someone has been raped (in which case he or she can testify against the perpetrator in court) or one of the individuals involved has been a minor, it is virtually impossible to bring a case of sexual activity between two consenting adults (whether homosexual or heterosexual) to court, let stand secure a conviction (this is what in fact the former President of Iran, Mr Mohammad Khatami states in this video: [5]). Of course, what I have described above concerns the "ideal" situation; in reality, some judges presiding over courts are just plainly incompetent for the task, not to mention that in reality also some defence lawyers can be equally incompetent (recently I read a case of a woman hanged in Iran for having killed her husband, and it was a clear case of the defence lawyer being utterly incompetent; under no circumstance would the woman be conceivably convicted for murder; the case was clearly a manslaughter under any legal system and this led me to write a very angry letter to one of the women's groups in Iran for having failed this hapless woman; thus far they have not responded to my letter).

With kind regards, --BF 04:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ITN

On 24 July 2008, In the news was updated with a news item that involved the article(s) Iraq at the 2008 Summer Olympics, which you created or substantially updated. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the In the news candidates page.

--BanyanTree 22:33, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, that was a misunderstanding on my part. Thanks for the additional cleanup. Cheers, Spencer^T♦C 00:31, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cleartype

Hello. I just found your response to my 'fonts' question on the reference desk. You seem to have guessed all the things that could be wrong - and therein lies my confusion - I have a LCD monitor, in the normal position, at 768x1024 resolution, and windows is set to the same parameters. When I turn 'cleartype' on I can verify the effect as described in the article (by looking very closely at the screen) - it definately does what it is supposed to do.

However the overall effect is inferior to that with it turned off - I'm guessing that perhaps the display has slight gaps between the pixels that spoil the effect, or maybe the 'VGA' analogue cable that connects is slightly imperfect and degrades the performance.

I think I described it as 'crap' which was an overstatement by a long way, but it definately is worse and no better.. It may just be my personal taste. Perhaps my monitor has some sort of per-pixel colour bleed as with clear-type on I can see colour banding at the edge of the pixels - which theoretically (in the perfect case) wouldn't be visible. Anyway the text is more than clear enough to read in any case, so I am fine. (I've given up on the safari browser for now, despite it having some nice features.)

Thanks for responding.87.102.86.73 (talk) 21:34, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Doesn't stop?

I have already apologized for my intemperate remarks against C.K. Raju, but what is the point of saying, "if he doesn't stop?" Where is the evidence that I have continued this behavior. I had never heard of Raju until this dispute began, and as far as I'm aware I've said nothing beyond what is quoted in the RfC (and in that window of time). Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:37, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your careful and detailed reply. Yes, I do agree with you. My behavior is not something I am proud of and I will make a change in my response and add that I am not condoning my behavior and do not intend to repeat it. I do tend to go off the handle more easily than some other people on Wikipedia that I have worked with, for example, user:Nichalp. I am very envious that they can keep the equanimity even while battling the worst trolls. I asked user:Sunray, who is also manages to keep his cool, what his secret was, and he suggested that volunteering at MedCab might have helped him. I am seriously considering doing that. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] mims-pianka recordings

Are you really saying that the "no recording" request is an issue of controversy that needs to be cited? I can't find anybody disputing this except you. TMLutas (talk) 03:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sonja Elen Kisa

I'm confused as to why you directed me to the discussion on S.E.K. as the matter was settled like a month or more ago. What, exactly, am I supposed to understand about Wikipedia policy? ناهد^𒀭(^dAnāhita) ^𒅴 06:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

So in this case, you are saying that the issue of privacy and comfort raised under BLP is (as I argued) the requisite issue when dealing with her request to keep her (male) birth name private? If so, I'm glad. She is notable for creating a language (one that has gotten quite a bit of coverage, actually!), not for being trans, and much of the information presented was incorrect. I couldn't specify how without breaking privacy, but it was wrong, and her birth name and state of her genitals is neither notable nor a public matter. ناهد^𒀭(^dAnāhita) ^𒅴 06:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You're welcome

..to defile my page ;) Just kidding.. don't worry you can post criticism on it if it's constructive and well-meant. I don't mind that. The other guy was a bit specific case and that's why I told him not to defile my talk page :) Cheers. JosipMac (talk) 17:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Blair

Hi Nil Einne. I have a question about your Tony Blair comments. I just see you're taking a break from all the "dumb stuff" on Wikipedia. This may be more of that dumb stuff you want a break from :) As you know, some have deleted Mahathir's criticism of Blair's foray into Iraq, which Maharthir says constitutes a war crime. Mahathir is not the only one with that opinion (I suspect a percentage of the British population think that also), but he is one of the most prominent and outspoken about it. You made some comments on the Blair talk page, suggesting reasons that both inclusion and exclusion could be justified, but not explicitly stating it should stay or go. Problem is, others (well, one other) is using your comment as a claim of consensus that the information should be deleted. Is it possible for you to clarify your comment on the Blair talk page? My own opinion is that WP:UNDUE would be balanced by including comments of those who were in favour of Iraq (possibly they praise the invasion, saying it is necessary for world peace, or energy security, or whatever they thought was good about the invasion), balanced with criticism, such as Mahathir who thought Blair committed war crimes. Mahathir made the war crime comment numerous times, both while PM and after, which was widely reported at the time. Thanks for your consideration. Sorry to disturb your Wiki-restbreak. Regards, --Lester 02:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Responded re. the Palin move...

Hi--I responded to your comment on my talk page, in case you're interested: User talk:Narsil#Moving pages. In a nutshell: Yes, I honestly thought the move would be uncontroversial, but yes, I can see that I was mistaken about that--my apologies. In the future, I'll run similar moves by WP:RM, even if I think they're utterly innocuous. -- Narsil (talk) 05:55, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BBC

May I suggest the fact that this was added to the articles of two DIFFERENT prominent South African politicians (three minutes apart) by the same user, that it is entirely untrue to the point of being "interesting/bizarre" (13 children), that no other sources point to this fact, and that in many years of reading the BBC daily I have never seen an article (having nothing to do with Wikipedia) EXPLICITLY cite Wikipedia. The line being "And according to his Wikipedia entry, he is the youngest of 13 children." I'm sorry, that sounds fishy to me. But even if it isn't, "lazy journalism" like this is fraudulent, and something I do not expect from the BBC. Just my opinion. T L Miles (talk) 19:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Again, my opinion. I respect that yours might differ. Have a good day! T L Miles (talk) 19:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edit to the article Religulous

In your recent edit, not only did you remove info comparing this to another film, but it appears you also removed all of the citations in that subsection which had info on the box office results of the film itself. Please do not remove that whole swathe of material, but rather at the very least retain the sources themselves, so that you do not then leave the entire subsection unsourced. Thank you. Cirt (talk) 11:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

The weekly box office figures speak for themselves. Steelbeard1 (talk) 14:18, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Nation Master

Thanks for the info, didn't know. Guess I didn't read that page properly :) Khawaga (talk) 14:34, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your comment at main page talk

Please bear in mind that the example I posted contains two featured pictures and one multipart featured sound: that particular combination wouldn't run at one time on the main page under any conditions. It happens to be the flagship example of a subproject called "A recording, a score, and a portrait" for Wikipedia:WikiProject Media Restoration, a project I founded. The goal of the subproject is to assemble quality free licensed recordings, sheet music, and portraits for as many composers and songwriters as possible. The long term goal of that subproject is a bit different from the drive to get featured sounds a little time on Wikipedia's main page.

I noticed that the featured article I wrote about Joan of Arc had been translated into 3 languages in 2.5 years. But the first picture I got featured at Wikimedia Commons had its caption translated into 2 dozen languages in a matter of months. It's easier to translate captions than whole articles, so why not build on that synergy where it matters most: with music? So far we have artists from three continents at Wikipedia:WikiProject Media Restoration/A recording, a score, and a portrait: even if a language edition of Wikipedia has just a one or two paragraph stub, a good media package conveys a lot of information about these people. Best wishes, Durova^Charge! 22:49, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pornography

Just letting you know that I've responded to your inquiry at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pornography. Dismas|^(talk) 07:39, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Given that

Given that you don't care either way, I think I'll just keep a watchful eye. Certainly a block could be justified, but it may be better just to monitor any future behavior. - Nunh-huh 13:09, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please don't put words into my mouth

I feel I have to post here and ask why you would insinuate that I said it was acceptable for men to beat their wives, and youths to beat and maim each other? At no point did I even hint that these things were acceptable. I think it is out of order that you would suggest that is my opinion. Titch Tucker (talk) 13:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

No, if you read it you will see I was pointing out my belief, whether you agree with it or not, that youths today are more violent towards elderly people than they were years ago. Why is that irrelevent to the discussion? Titch Tucker (talk) 14:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

You amaze me! You have actually turned it around to imply that I put words into your mouth! I shall delete your reply to me on my talk page. You have obviously got too high an opinion of yourself, therefore there is no point in continuing this. You are welcome to do the same here. Titch Tucker (talk) 15:00, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe there was a lot of misunderstanding between us. Arguing who put words into who's mouth is pretty futile and would only lead to another disagreement, so I think we should leave it there with no hard feelings and move on. Titch Tucker (talk) 12:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Not complaining

I'd prefer to email you, but you have not enabled your email id. =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:50, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Did you get my email? I mailed it as soon as you fixed the issue. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfD nomination of WPT:LIBEL

I have nominated WPT:LIBEL (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. MBisanz ^talk 21:53, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Family Airlines

Hi! Regarding the 1996 family airlines thing there are second sources that discuss the 1996 incident. What should I do next? WhisperToMe (talk) 19:17, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks! Here is what I have so far: User:WhisperToMe/Family Airlines - Please give some input WhisperToMe (talk) 02:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] January 2009 collaboration

Hi there. We need more votes again for our January 2009 collaboration. As of December 7, only 4 members have voted. Please do exercise your right to vote! Thanks! :-) White2020 (talk) 08:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jayvdb vote

Hi, I just saw you voting on Jayvdb with the rationale that "if he had recognised this as a problem and said he would abstain on such issues it wouldn't be such an issue but he didn't". Just FYI, he in fact did: [6]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I've decided to abstain instead Nil Einne (talk) 22:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ArbCom vote

I'm sorry to hassle you but I'm very puzzled by your comments about privacy. I haven't commented directly on this and I certainly don't believe in full disclosure.

I'm emphatic that confidential and sensitive issues (outing, medical stuff etc) must be kept confidential by ArbCom. There is, for example, no point in disclosing all the evidence about an outing case, including unoversighted diffs, as that would have the effect of outing an editor.

However, there is considerable community unease about using secret evidence to sanction editors. In this instance, the answer is to see whether non-sensitive evidence exists that would prove the same point. In an outing example, you can establish that an editor has been outing without going into the detail of the information disclosed.

Overall, I believe that ArbCom should operate a great more transparently, which will probably mean explaining why things have been done the way they have. It does not mean full disclosure of everything to everyone. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 17:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Short (sic) general reply to potential queries

For those wondering why and how I voted, it's a rather complicated pattern with various issues and I expect some degree of randomness. Because I voted very late (not on purpose, I don't usually check my WL so had no idea of a vote until I happened to be reading Jimbo's page) I already had a very good idea of was likely to win, who could win and who was almost definitely not going to win.

Firstly, I voted in two or three phases, one where I looked through the candidates briefly and made a quickish decision, one where I looked in more detail particularly at certain candidates (mostly those who were borderline between winning and losing) and perhaps a final one where I checked some stuff to make sure I was right (although I did this most of the time). I will freely admit I didn't read all answers by candidates to questions (did anyone?), although I did read the statements (which IMHO are quite important). And I did as it turns out spend quite a numberof hours on deciding how to vote.

At first, my voting was a bit adhoc. If I came across something I liked or didn't like, I voted accordingly. If I was came across someone who I was unsure both ways, I put it in the too hard basket and left it. Mostly, this affected those who had no chance of winning, when I gave moral support if you like to those who for whatever reason I felt needed it and opposed those tho I felt I couldn't support. I looked at a variety of issues particularly in the later stages BLP and also whether or not the candidate seemed serious and comprehended the enormous task that is arbcom. And there were probably some candidates who I ended up treating more harshly then others for the same issue. Or to put it simply, did this candidate click for me? One thing which wasn't random is I did decide to support the two incumbents because I don't fully agree with the mood fo change. But all in all for most of the candidates on the lower end of the vote tally, perhaps don't take my vote too seriously either way, it was likely a bit random and ad-hoc. This applies to a far lesser degree to the top 3 candidates who while I did spend some time looking into them, probably not as much as the next 4-10 or so and felt less urgency (since based on tallies, the chance it would make any difference whether they are in the group that serves 3 years or 1 year, let alone whether they get through is close to zero and if it does happen would need to be analysed carefully). (Some would say I should have abstained on most of these candidates but I disagree.)

One thing which I disagreed with is the view of Sandy George who generally felt contributors definitely need to have extensive work in quality articles. While I do think we should have some members of that ilk, I think there's nothing wrong with contributors who have primarily worked in other areas. Another thing which I disagreed with was the unacceptability of anyone who contributes a lot to WR. As I mentioned in one of my votes, I find WR a generally stupid site, but I'm not going to penalise people for stuff on WR unless I feel the user's behaviour there reflects poorly on how they would act as an arbcom.

Besides BLP, one issue that ended up being often a decider for me (and since most of those at the top had decent views on BLP it was a big decider) was what they said about the OM case as well as confidentiality and private evidence. While I haven't ever looked extremely extensively at the OM case, indeed that and the big bruhaha RFC about arbcom largely passed me over, from what I have seen and read, I'm not convinced things were as bad many people feel. Mistakes were made and I've decided not to go into them since it is unnecessary and it may offend some. It did cause a lot of controversy, which as a bad thing but I don't believe it's entirely the arbcom's fault or a terrible stain on them.

And as for my views on discretion by the arbcom. I know quite a few don't agree with me but I believe given the nature of the arbcom, sometimes they do have to or it would be better to carry out proceedings in private. And yes, sometimes they will have to withold some evidence from the eyes even of those before them. This may not seem fair to some and is, I would agree, unacceptable in a court of law (for example, I find the plans for the Guantanamo trials digusting). I had started to elaborate further but I wrote was already very long and not even half-finished so I decided to stop and exclude it.

I will give one completely random made up example. Let's say a highly trusted editor meets or knows someone and for whatever reason they end up discussing wikipedia and they learn something about a user that they feel the arbcom needs to know about (e.g. of sockpuppetry). However they have no wish for their information to be revealed even to the person they met. Perhaps because they don't want people to they edit wikipedia (perhaps it's even illegal for them), perhaps they are afraid they will be harassed by the person who they met, perhaps it's their friend or relative, perhaps they work for the person who told them the information, whatever. In this case it's obvious you can't tell the accused party at all about this. Indeed you even have to be careful about approaching the user since if you tell the user 2 days after they discussed the matter with the other party there's a good chance they're going to put two and two together. So what do you do? Obviously you should look for other evidence to support the claims, as you should do in all cases although there is obviously greater urgency since the other party can't challenge this information, they can't for example offer evidence there is no way they could have met the other person because they've never been where they allegedly meet. And perhaps you find other evidence e.g. from a CU which while not conclusive supports the theory (it could for example not only reveal that sockpuppetry is possible but perhaps reveal that perhaps support the idea the user comes from a specific location or even uses a specific ISP which concurs with what the trusted user told you). But if the original evidence is particularly compelling and really your case isn't strong enough without it and the user who revealed the evidence highly trusted (perhaps even submits a sworn statement) do you really throw this evidence out because it can't be in anyway revealed to to the accused user? IMHO no, you accept the totality of evidence with due consideration that what can't be revealed has to be used with care since it can't be challenged, decide the case and reveal what you can. I'm not saying this is a excellent example. It was completely made up but I'm sure there are many other cases which I'm not aware of and examples I can't think of where you will have to use evidence that you can't reveal to the other party. I respect the view of those who don't agree with this, but I clearly have different views.

Based on all this, I analysed resonably carefully the views expressed by the various candidates on these matters (OM, private trials, confidential information, unrevealed evidence etc) and look for those most similar to mine particularly among the candidates ranking 4-10 who it looked like my vote could mean something. At a later stage (actually I noticed it earlier but never looked in to it) I came across User talk:Cynical/Archive 8 who queried the aspect of whether the candidate was point blank opposed to any evidence used which is not revealed to the other party and in case it's not yet obvious, is something I don't agree. And yes, I did reject those people who received support from cynical (except for carcharoth who while supported by cynical never seemed to express clear views to me on the matter nor did cynical say he did) after re-analysing what they said whether to her or in the questions if necessary (although that largely agreed with my own analysis except for coolhandluke). Most of the others were less clear cut and I recognise some of them may have even more extreme views just unwilling or unable to express them but that's the nature of things.

In summary I will say the arbcom needs to be seen to be fair. It needs to be trusted. And it also needs to work effectively in making wikipedia a better place. Above all it needs to be fair. Sometimes these goals coincide, sometimes they do not and I've voted on those I feel will best achieve that balance.

Nil Einne (talk) 13:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thoughts from Cool Hand Luke

Thank you. While you correctly understand my position, I think my reasoning might interest you.

User:Lar has sometimes remarked that "Wikipedia doesn't do due process." I agree. This is a collaborative encyclopedia, and removing access from it is in no way analogous to removing a protected right. We don't need to be absolutely certain that someone's behavior is destructive—ArbCom does not conduct criminal trials, it just supports the interests of the encyclopedia (see, for example, my answer to UninvitedCompany #16).

So I don't oppose using secret evidence because it violates some sort of human right.

I oppose the practice for one simple reason: People lie.

One of the best ways to evaluate possibly-truthful claims is through cross-examination and scrutiny. When claims cannot be presented to the affected party, the best arguments against them are potentially being ignored. By conveying the allegations to the affected user, they have the opportunity to refute them. If they cannot, than we can be quite confident that the witness is correct. If, on the other hand, the witness refuses to let the evidence be forwarded, it can never go through rigorous validation. Moreover, I'm concerned about the moral hazard of allowing individual users to anonymously tar another. Again, people lie.

That doesn't mean that the committee shouldn't look for confirming evidence. Private allegations can be a hot tip, and I assure you that I will be tenacious about investigating all public and private allegations. It was an off-site tip that triggered the Mantanmoreland case, and I put a lot of work into substantially confirming the claims by using legitimate on-wiki evidence that User:Mantanmoreland was confronted with (and answered unconvincingly).

The bottom line is that I don't oppose secret evidence because editing is some sort of natural right. But rather I oppose secret evidence because it's bad at sorting out the truth, and confidence in the committee (and work on the encyclopedia) suffers when we don't get it right. Cool Hand Luke 20:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Converting Flash with VLC

I'm doubtful that I will get any more responses at the Commons Village pump. Can you give me anymore information on how I might convert a Flash video to something else using VLC, or how I might even download it? The problem is that I can't seem to get at the source file. If I could get it onto my computer as a file I'm sure I could convert it into ogg directly or indirectly.

The video is here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sam2cents/2577843608/

Actually, there are a lot of good videos for this species, see e.g. http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Song+Thrush&ss=0&ct=0&mt=videos&w=all

Clearly it's much more difficult to upload a video than a photo. I hope they can improve this by initially at least providing some documentation (I can do this part myself actually, though I want to know the best way(s) to do it first. Richard001 (talk) 03:05, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] new WP:RDREG userbox

This user is a Reference desk regular.

The box to the right is the newly created userbox for all RefDesk regulars. Since you are an RD regular, you are receiving this notice to remind you to put this box on your userpage! (but when you do, don't include the |no. Just say {{WP:RD regulars/box}} ) This adds you to Category:RD regulars, which is a must. So please, add it. Don't worry, no more spam after this - just check WP:RDREG for updates, news, etc. flaminglawyer^c 21:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] As we respond to another's remarks

Dear N.E., it seems we're both responding to another's* contribution on the Humanities Ref Desk, and I just want you to know: I generally deplore what I consider that user's ill-judged and sometimes downright offensive remarks on many topics, but certainly this recent one. I've tried to stay out of the current discussions, not the least because this morning my area's on alert for rocket attacks from Southern Lebanon and I've been busy counseling two visiting European Wikipedians (one of whom, here for a year, lives on the street where a residence for the elderly took a katyusha hit) as to how to get through the day. I look forward to more productive discussions on these and similar topics, and wish us a speedy and lasting ceasefire and aid to all those directly affected. -- Deborahjay (talk) 10:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Update: I've seen fit to add this. Do you think the matter would further benefit from a posting on the Ref Desk Talk page? -- Deborahjay (talk) 11:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)